Aurora Citizen

News & Views from the Citizens of Aurora Ontario

An Open Invitation — Will You Accept

Posted by auroracitizen on June 10, 2009

Much has been made about the ownership and potential bias of this blog. Often, this is simply used to distract from the actual issue identified in the initial post — simply refer to the last post about Development Charges as an example. Not one comment responded to the issue of why the Development Charges by-law was rushed.

So here’s the invitation. One that has been extended a number of times already.

Send in a post — anonymously if you wish — and we will post your opinion (unedited and unchanged) on any issue in the Town as long as the post meets the guidelines (i.e. language should be consistent with what you would be pleased to have your children read, unsubstantiated allegations will not be accepted).

If you want to send it anonymously, simply write an anonymous comment in any blog posting and add a header indicating that the post is to be publish as a Guest Post. This has been done a number of times in the past.

If you agree with the conduct of Council in any aspect — make your point and present your arguments. Then others will have the opportunity to respond.

If you disagree with the conduct of Council in any aspect — make your point and present your arguments. Then others will have the opportunity to respond.

If you have an opinion about anything — make your point and present your arguments. Then others will have the opportunity to respond.

If you have any doubt about whether they will be published — look at the previous post. If the intent was to stifle comments, why would all of the negative comments have been published. It’s hard to make that assertion stick in the face of hard facts.

If you chose not to accept this invitation to post an opposing opinion, then we will assume you are comfortable that your opinions are being heard through the comments section of other posts.

This blog will continue to present issues we feel would be of interest to the community and publish them in a forum that facilitates people expressing their opinions.

Use the envelope and pencil icons immediately below to forward this post to friends or leave a comment.

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44 Responses to “An Open Invitation — Will You Accept”

  1. Anonymous said

    "Whoever did the dirty deed, they dropped a bombshell."

    As it turned out, more of a damp squib.

  2. Anonymous said

    Evelyn Buck said,"The last post was obviously from a young person. "
    And what made it obvious, oh all-knowing-one?
    Where are your facts?

    I think it did serve Buck's purposes to out Bill Hogg.

    Yes she'll do anything for attention and I do believe it fits her MO… attention, always, no cost too great.

    The lady loves to obsess on political attention… any party, anywhere, any time, all the time.

    Probably most people don't devote their lives to political scheming.
    Everyone has a choice.

  3. Robert the Bruce said

    To anonynous at June 15, 2009 8:23 AM….

    Time to call Mulder and Scully again!

    "It's clear that whoever posted the info on Buck's blog had inside info on Bill Hogg."

    This is not true at all. The poster that did this had the internet savvy to do a Google search!

    Do you actually think that Evelyn would toss Bill under the bus to take heat away from her? She thrives on the attention that her blog gets. To deflect attention to this blog would be counter to her MO.

    What has happened here is simply that Bill left a foot print in the internet sand box when he emailed for technical assistance about his blog. Someone did a Google search and found the connection.

    As I mentioned before, I sent an email to the moderator of this blog a while ago. The email bounced back and the "from" was an email address with Bill's name on it. I chose not to devulge this information, it does not serve any purpose. In hindsight, I should have sent Bill an email to let him know that it bounced back. That would not have changed the "footprint" but would have let him know that he was not anonymous.

    I think Bill has enough political smarts to weather this situation. I think that this blog serves as a useful outlet to those that use it and I would like it to stay.

    Fuimus

  4. Anonymous said

    Anonymous said…
    Didn't outing Bill Hogg serve Buck?

    It's clear that whoever posted the info on Buck's blog had inside info on Bill Hogg.

    Buck's blog is linked to Hogg's. The format is the same. For the most part both blogs serve the purpose of undermining the Mayor and Council.

    Clearly the Mayor and Town management were upset at comments regarding criminal activities. If Councilor Buck was privy to some inside information that the Town was focusing on her team, then why not out Bill Hogg. It would save her some grief and possible expense.

    Whoever did the dirty deed, they dropped a bombshell. Time will tell how much collateral damage it will cause.

  5. Anonymous said

    I enjoyed the comment from Anonymous June 12, 2009 10:39 AM
    "The All All About Me" struck a chord.
    Remember when Ms. Buck chose to draw attention to herself with a pink streak in her hair, and her war cry, " I Am Woman Hear Me Roar"?
    Did she miss her rebellious teen years?
    Just a question that pops into my mind.

  6. Anonymous said

    A group of people in my inner circle are very concerned about the lack of respect that Ms. Buck showed to Mr. Cooper.
    We feel that she has gone too far in the constant declarations of her superiority.

    Her sole consistent motivation seems to be to keep her steroid-inflated ego fed, even if it means taking food from the plates of others.

    This town needs to prepare for the times ahead, with a clear purpose.
    Aurora shouldn't be held hostage to an individual's ego.

  7. Anonymous said

    Me and my friends are ticked off with Evelyn Buck.
    She thinks were not important if we don't own a home, we don't know about Aurora.
    She doesn't respect the new town lawyer.
    Why?
    We like the new lawyer.
    She causes trouble.
    I'm glad Sher stood up to her.

  8. Anonymous said

    My friends wonder about why Evelyn Buck didn't believe Mr. Cooper.
    He has the schooling and law experience.
    She doesn't.
    I think she was disrespectful.

  9. Evelyn Buck said

    The last post was obviously from a young person. Good on you for joining the discussion. You may have a future in politics.

    I would only ask that you read again what I said about the election count.
    It's an argument about why the numbers of people who vote are not necessarily a reflection against those who don't.The last voter's list was taken from the census. That means it included people who did not have the right to vote;non-Canadian Citizens.
    You wonder why I always think I am right. In politics,a Councillor must cast a vote. I may not always be right but I do have to vote and I can't imagine doing that if I'm not confident my judgement is as right as I can make it.

    My vote is on behalf of the people who elected me. I have to do the best I can for them. It's not an option.

    The rest of it, you are not in a position to know. You should never put things into writing unless you can prove what you are saying is true.Especially if you are putting your name to your contentions.

    Otherwise you are simply maligning a reputation. There's never a good reason for that.

  10. Anonymous said

    "I heard she has always gotten $ from taxpayers."

    I don't recall Evelyn ever canvassing for $ for a cause, if that's what you mean. Each of the councillors 'has always gotten $ from taxpayers' – it is a paid position, you know.

    I'm not a homeowner, but I do vote. I think the comment about picking names on the ballot, and Evelyn's being first was really silly…why vote at all if you don't have an idea in mind WHO you're going to vote for.

    In 06 I didn't have to pick EIGHT councillors. One or none would have been fine on the ballot. I can't imagine just picking someone's name I didn't even know simply because they were first.

    If you can't make an educated choice, then why choose at all???

  11. Anonymous said

    I'm tired of Evelyn Buck accusing the council of wrong doing at every turn, to satisfy her craving for attention.
    Nothing ever comes of her rants, except $ spent on legal advice.
    She cranks up expenses, then complains about it.
    I just saw the last council meeting and I'm ripping mad about her need to control and finger-point.
    She discounts my people, says we don't vote.
    We may not have money to own a home but I bet we show more caring for our neighbors than she does.
    We may not own our homes but we volunteer to help others.
    What does she do to help others?
    Sher helped my family.
    When has Evelyn Buck volunteered?
    I heard she has always gotten $ from taxpayers.
    She is so sure she is right.
    I was upset that she didn't even accept the legal opinion of the Lawyer Mr. Cooper.
    Why doesn't she respect him?
    My family thinks they know.

  12. Evelyn Buck said

    I responded to the lament that only 12 thousand people out of fifty came out to vote.

    I'm saying that may not be as bad as it looks.I'm not trying to start a fight.

    Until I became a property-owner, property-taxes were not a factor in my budget.
    An apartment building canvas was the best place on a cold, dark, wet and windy night in the fall.

    Of course there are tenants who vote. Many tenants are former home owners who completely understand who is providing what service.

    Any smart candidate checks out the vote ,as far as possible, after an election. You have to plan your resources .You have to know what effort had best result.
    I always tell a candidate who didn't win not to write off their investment in time and financial resources.

    Much can be learned from a campaign. It's never wasted.

    People appreciate nothing more than a personal contact from a candidate.They regard that as a mark of respect.

    I think they are right.

  13. My Kinda Town said

    June 12 8:52! Dude! Good call! For me 1/4 means "1 out of 4" and not "1 vs 4."

    Hardly a matter for diff eq's, but I see your concern!

    Perhaps there IS a difference in our schooling, as you suggest! Not just where, but when!

    Oh, and DUDES!

    Somebody posted 3 minutes of an AC meeting on Youtube! Do the minutes match? The best part is at 3:11!

    MKT

  14. Anonymous said

    Evelyn Buck, as I read it the definitions you site are specific to sections 239 to 239.2 It serves as preamble for that section.

    Procedure by-law
    Definitions
    238. (1) In this section and in sections 239 to 239.2,
    “committee” means any advisory or other committee, subcommittee or similar entity of which at least 50 per cent of the members are also members of one or more councils or local boards; (“comité”)
    “local board” does not include police services boards or public library boards; (“conseil local”)
    “meeting” means any regular, special or other meeting of a council, of a local board or of a committee of either of them. (“réunion”) 2001, c. 25, s. 238 (1); 2006, c. 32, Sched. A, s. 102 (1, 2).

  15. Anonymous said

    Hugo T. Kroon said…

    "Need I go on?"

    In a word – No.

    Try http://bethesdacitizen.blogspot.com

  16. Anonymous said

    Evelyn Buck and Mayor Morris are two of a kind, with their common theme song, "It's All Me".
    Both are manipulators.
    Both do a disservice to this town because the town is too small, its resources too limited to service them AND the residents.

    They are sucking us dry.

  17. Evelyn Buck said

    For the looney kroons from other places:

    The Municipal Act: Section 238(1)

    Committee-defined

    "committee" means any advisory or other committee,sub-committee or similar entity of which at least 50 per cent of the members are also members of one or more councils or local boards.

    "Councils" in this case are two… Local and Regional. They are the elected authority.

    Boards, such as Library,are appointed. They have "statutory" authority.

    As a Councillor,I am provided with a copy of the Municipal Act.
    If someone wishes to challenge me on facts,it would be relatively simple to Google the Act before suggesting that I am so unwise as to quote an Act without having facts at my fingertips.

  18. Robert the Bruce said

    Evelyn Buck said that Oscar Wilde said "Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit The hallmark of ignorance
    And only fools use it"

    Is this not the same person that said "There is only one thing worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about." ?

    That quote is very appropriate for most political types.

    Evelyn, I must take exception to your demographic analysis.

    When you say "non-citizens" are you referring to non-citizens of Aurora or non-Canadian citizens?

    Unmarried children living with parents….. Why don't they have the same stake in things? Do they not use the services of the town? Some of these "children" pay room and board and indirectly contribute to the tax base.

    Renters have bad turnouts? I remember living in an apartment building and the polling place was in the lobby! I also remember line ups to vote.

    18 year olds didn't have the right to vote! I think you are really stretching things. When did the voting age change to 18? I am thinking early '70s at the latest.

    Seniors are the most reliable? Come on. Seniors are the most reliable to YOU because they are the ones that recognize your name and your past. I find that alot of seniors in this town are relunctant to vote for "new" people because they have this mis-guided notion that Aurora is still a small town and that these new people will bring nasty things like Walmart and other big-box stores to the town. The reality is, this town may be "small" but we are part of a much larger area now and if we don't accept that, we as a town will suffer later.

    People don't vote in municipal elections because they don't know who is running and can't be bothered to figure it out. Think about this past election (3 years ago almost). The slate of candidates for councillor was huge. They are listed in alphabetical sequence. How many people vote by picking the names that they recognize and then fill in the rest alphabetically. BIG ADVANTAGE if your last name is BUCK. Maybe I should change my last name to AAAAAAAAA and see how I do?

    The name recognition is why we get councillors like Wendy Gaertner. She sits there with that open-mouth vacant look and asks the most brilliant of questions. Her claim to fame… The HotSpot!

    There is a small number of voters that are actually informed and know who is who before they hit the polling place. Those people come from all of the demographics that you talked about. Each of their votes is as important as the others.

    Fuimus

  19. Anonymous said

    "My Kinda Town said…
    What if one councillor, GAWFF, votes one way, and the other three councillors vote another?

    Is 1/4 a majority?"

    Where did you go to school?

    If one councilor voted one way and the other three another – that's
    1 / 3 vote, but not a one third vote.

    What happen to the 5th councilor?

    Good for you we only have 8 councilors and a Mayor. If there were more than 10, you would have to take off your shoes and socks to count the vote.

  20. Anonymous said

    Standing ovation for Hugo T. Kroon!

  21. My Kinda Town said

    What if one councillor, GAWFF, votes one way, and the other three councillors vote another?

    Is 1/4 a majority?

    MKT

    PS. The game's afoot, Walmartonians! I mean Aurorans!

    PPS. There is only one post, on 'both' blogs, that has made me 'Laugh Out Loud,' as your kids say. June 10 7:02 at the top. Now THAT dude is funny! And pretty perceptive.

  22. Hugo T. Kroon said

    Evelyn Buck said: "It was an admonition when I was but a mere child,…", so then, you must have known Oscar personally did you?
    That explains a lot.

    "Unmarried children living with parents are in the general population and the voters list. They don't have the same stake in things.
    Rental buildings have a notoriously bad turn-out. That's not hard to understand. They haven't always had the right to vote in municipal money matters.
    Eighteen year olds didn't always have the right to vote. They have lots of other stuff on their minds."

    Any other groups of voters you'd care to take a swipe at Evelyn?

    Its a wonder anyone votes for you at all…

    "Senior's are the most reliable voters. "

    Oh yeah, the senile and dementia patients are your main target demographic.

    Nice. Everone who's not like you must therefore be less reliable. You are real people person arn't you Ev?

    Sheesh.

    And this is the person some of you folks are looking to as a savior?Doesn't know the municipal act, thinks she is right all the time, hasn't the first clue what representational democracy is all about, thinks it's okay to harrass memebers of the public, berates people because "sarcasm is the lowest form of wit", but apparently believes insulting and belittling is okay. etc, etc, etc…
    Need I go on?

    Come on people you can do better that this.
    The current Mayor is bad enough, but Buck?
    You people deserve better.

    I think.

    On the other hand, I could be wrong.

    And Bill, if as I suspect, you are the moderator, I said it before and I'll say it again, it is the absolute pinacle of hypocracy to even consider the issue of "anonymous posting" on your blog, when you don't have stones to identify yourself.
    As for your "open invitation"… be careful what you wish for, you just might get it.

  23. Anonymous said

    "But, nothing is concrete in an AC meeting….suggestions go from there to general committee to Council, don't they?"

    June 11, 2009 1:15 PM

    That's right – all Advisory Committee recommendations go to Council as suggestions. If Council doesn't agree with the suggestion then it's back to the drawing board. So I don't understand Councilor Buck complaining that the citizens on the Advisory Committees have too much power.

    However, if you have FIVE councilors on an Advisory Committee agree on something it can be understood that the majority of Coincil agrees. It's no longer a suggestion. It's a decision of Council.

    PS. 5 out of 9 is a majority.

  24. Evelyn Buck said

    Anonymous.9.54 a.m.

    I never claimed to be a saint. I have the same rugged instincts as yourself but maybe a more robust imagination.

    "Spontaneously combust" would have been a more appropriate expression than
    explode, don't you think.

    I don't think "leaders" should be expected to be more righteous than everybody else. What kind of crap is that?

    Maybe you would prefer if I posted anonymously. Then I could have the satisfaction of expressing outrageous thoughts as a break from sober reflection without being accountable.

    Nah … it wouldn't be nearly so satisfying.

  25. Anonymous said

    We need Ev's interpretation of her comment to set the record straight.
    Ev, do you like sarcasm?

  26. Anonymous said

    "You must have quorom, more than 50% of the councilors present, to have a council meeting."

    What's 50% of 9, using Aurora Council math?

    "Councilors must be careful when they are in a group that represents quorom that they don't discuss town business. It could be constituted as a secret meeting. If you have advisory committee meetings, with more than 50% of the councilors present as members of the committee, they wouldn't be providing advice to council they would be making decisions."

    But, nothing is concrete in an AC meeting….suggestions go from there to general committee to Council, don't they?

  27. Anonymous said

    "Evelyn Buck says she abhors sarcasm. Good to know"

    She did? That's NOT how I read it.

  28. Anonymous said

    "I hate quotations. Tell me what you know."
    -Emerson

  29. Anonymous said

    RE: Committees

    You must have quorom, more than 50%of the councilors present, to have a council meeting. Councilors must be careful when they are in a group that represents quorom that they don't discuss town business. It could be constituted as a secret meeting. If you have advisory committee meetings, with more than 50% of the councilors present as members of the committee, they wouldn't be providing advice to council they would be making decisions.

    If you follow Councilor Buck's logic to the end, then you could have a comittee with 5 councilors making decisions with the other 4 shutout because they're not on the committee.

    Just a thought.

  30. Anonymous said

    Evelyn Buck says she abhors sarcasm. Good to know her comment about her enemies disappearing up their own posterior orifices was not meant to be sarcastic, but taken literally.

    It always helpful to have additional insight into the mind of a leader.

  31. Evelyn Buck said

    I can't be bothered to read all the posts again to see which had the comment about only 12,000 out of 50.000 voting.
    It may not be as bad as it seems.
    Children and non-citizens are included in population figures.
    Unmarried children living with parents are in the general population and the voters list. They don't have the same stake in things.
    Rental buildings have a notoriously bad turn-out. That's not hard to understand. They haven't always had the right to vote in municipal money matters.
    Eighteen year olds didn't always have the right to vote. They have lots of other stuff on their minds.

    It would be interesting to know where the vote comes from before we conclude the numbers mean what they seem.
    Traditionally many people only vote if there is a mayoralty contest. Council seats are not nearly as important to them.
    Then again if everything is quiet and agreeable that's another reasonn not to stir. If mayoralty candidates are lacklustre, people are inclined to say… What's the point? There's nothing to choose.

    Senior's are the most reliable voters. Maybe it's a generational thing. Eh! What!

  32. Anonymous said

    I found this week's council meeting enlightening.
    I thought that it allowed all participants opportunity to reveal the workings of The Corporation.

  33. Anonymous said

    As an established fool, let me contribute this quote: History teaches us that men and nations behave wisely once they have exhausted all other alternatives.
    – Abba Eban

    I know I know it should be persons not men.

    It's off to work I go with a foolish song in my heart.
    Thank goodness there are fools in our world.

    I'll take foolishness over war, any day.

  34. Anonymous said

    I don't know, Ev, but it sure made valid points.

    Maybe worth giving a second thought.
    Especially when some complain about the length of meetings, and getting sidetracked and all.

  35. Evelyn Buck said

    To Anonymous June 10th 8.25p.m.

    Oscar Wilde;

    "Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit
    The hallmark of ignorance
    And only fools use it"

    It was an admonition when I was but a mere child, learning picking up that the habit.It was an effective put-down.

    It certainly taught me.

  36. Heather said

    Suggestion for a new topic….

    Please feel free to remove my name – only because the anonymous people seem to only like anonymous comments 🙂

    How bout we steer away from the NEGATIVITY for a short while and see what people LIKE about Aurora? I for one love the walking trails, the shopping, and the R&R Revisted.

    I'm sure there are some folks out there who have some good to share. I remember mentioning favourite restaurants (possibly as an anonymous comment) and getting shat upon for it… but that's something worth revisiting. Restaurants, shops…. The EB Paper does a Readers' Choice Awards….for Nmkt and Aurora, maybe we need one JUST for Aurora.

  37. Anonymous said

    Reading this Blog has given me a better opinion of Mayor Morris.
    I didn't vote for her but I find her growing on me when I see what she has to put up with.

    I also fully support her seeking legal advice.
    I do believe everyone will benefit.

  38. Elizabeth Bishenden said

    I guess more than a few of us figured it was Bill Hogg running this blog. Well, heck, there were a few clues.

    I'm one of the few people who never post anonymously.

    I will tell you with complete candour that I hardly ever read the anonymous postings all the way through. When someone has an identifiable "handle" like a name or a username, it helps that person have a presence on the blog.

    Do I care if Aurora Citizen is Bill? Just a bit. Do I care if you're anonymous? Hardly at all… I won't take your post seriously.

  39. Anonymous said

    Seems like some feel they have a lock on the rules.

    Look around.

    You think. You don't know.
    Be careful of what you deem to be true.

  40. Elizabeth Bishenden said

    One reason I can think of for having less than 50% council representation on committees is that there may not be enough councillors to go around for all the committees. I'm wondering if anyone has considered this matter.

  41. Anonymous said

    My congratulations to Bill Hogg for providing such a wonderful forum for discussion, albeit sometimes not at all proactive but just the same an outlet.

    Back to the topic at hand and that is that this particular council doesn't follow any rules. Have you not figured out yet that they don't have to?

    If you think that what Buck was citing from the Municipal Act is insinuation then possibly you might want to refer to the Municipal Act before you use the word "insinuating" I am sure you will find it as Councillor Buck recited.

    My goodness the only thing that could possibly be worse than this council is them getting re-elected.

    Somebody mentioned that there is a procedure to be followed to have them investigated, I don't recall seeing where the information is located, however, I would be very interested in finding out. Please post it again.

    Thanks and have a great evening!

  42. Anonymous said

    Seems like Ms. Buck is the sole expert.
    Does she have a law degree? She must.

    I just don't understand why more people aren't bending to her will, and following her sublime interpretations that are beyond what mere mortals can comprehend.

    In fact I don't know why we bother to elect a mayor and other councillors.
    Ms. Buck is all we need.
    Imagine how short the council meeting would have been without her there to take everyone on her magical mystery tour.

  43. Anonymous said

    Well, if the municipal act says that the committees need to be 50% elected officials, why DOESN'T Aurora follow that?

    Is it so we can have a committee chaired by St Kitts and run by the same?

    Didn't you think it was interesting that the MA says this is how it must be, and yet Evelyn was told 'we're okay operating as we are'. Like 'we don't go by the rules, but that's okay'.

    How on earth is that okay?

  44. Anonymous said

    What is all the fuss about Bill Hogg being behind the Aurora Citizen. Who gives a F@#$. In the meantime Aurora Council continues to be an embarassment. Last night we had Ms. Buck citing the Municipal Act insinuating that Advisory committees should be comprised of 50% of Council. Not an expert but could you imagine the paralysis at Toronto City Hall if this in fact was true. It doesn't happen there or in Newmarket, Barrie that I know of. Regardless most people missed Wendy Gaertners indepth question?? on the matter. She continues to be an absolute loon and embarrassment to the voters of Aurora. Again Ms. Morris seemed perplexed at to what she was trying to say. Clearly out of her element Ms Gaertner was. Steven Granger also weighed in and as ususual had nothing of substance to add and again Ms. Morris seemed somewhat perplexed as to what he was trying to say.
    What is troublesome is these two individuals form part of the Morris /Walmer/Mceachern bloc that controls council.Nothing to add but mere flotsam controlled by a manipulative Mayor. Thats the real problem folks.

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